Nov 05 2007

Her Pants Are SO on Fire…

Despite my somewhat cynical, suspicious nature I’m still, oddly enough, a very optimistic and trusting person.

What this means is sometimes I will pick up on a feeling that someone is not being honest or is just plain full of shit but I brush it off because I WANT to trust them.

However, when the lie comes from my child? I feel compelled to address it because one time it’s a small lie about something minor and before you know it, it’s a lie about going to watch movies at a girlfriend’s house when you’re really going to a party to hang out with your much older friends (and BOYS!) and partake in copious amounts of cheap beer and shwaggy, seedy marijuana.

Not that I would know anything about that sort of thing. Ahem.

So this weekend, when I saw several uneaten apple slices in the sink, presumably intended to be put in the disposal, I wanted to know how they got there.

I wasn’t mad. I just wanted to tell the person who put them down there that they should have just left them on their plate because we ALL like apples and someone else would have eaten them. No biggie.

I asked my daughter, TQ, if she put her apples in the sink.

She says no, just as cool and casual as can be.

“Really?” I say, “Because it wasn’t P. He’s still at the table eating.”

Again, I get the wide-eyed “I have no earthly idea how those got there” look and another denial.

She’s good. VERY convincing. And I really want to believe her.

But I smell bullshit because WHO ELSE’S APPLES WOULD THOSE BE IF NOT HERS?????

I ask again, looking directly into her eyes and again she insists they’re not hers.

I decide a different approach is warranted because now? I’m on a mission.

SOMEBODY is gonna own up to throwing away this fricken apple; this delicious Gala organic apple that I took the time to painstakingly peel and slice! If only you knew how much I loathe all forms of domesticity…

“Well, I’m not upset or anything. I was just going to say to whoever threw this in the sink that your brother or I would have eaten it. You should just tell me if it was you.”

I can see a subtle change come across her case. And she begins to crack.

“I know it was you,” I say, feeling a bit ridiculous for making such a big deal over a stupid apple. But really, it’s not about the apple. She’s LYING to my face! How can I let that go?

And then she finally confesses to the high crime of throwing a her apple slices in the sink; looking a bit sheepish, I assume, for having carried this charade so far.

Then I lower the boom.

“You lied to me, TQ. It’s not about the apple anymore. I gave you numerous chances to tell me the truth but you sat there and lied to me over and over.”

No response — just a lot of fidgeting and two big ol’ eyes looking back at me.

“Why did you lie?”

“I don’t know.”

Now I’m just irritated and disappointed and I start wondering how many other times I’ve taken her word without question and been lied to.

I must CRUSH this lying bidness RIGHT NOW! *shakes fist*

But how???

I say to her, “Go get all your Littlest Pet Shop stuff and bring it to me.”

She does.

I take the box and as I’m leaving the room I say “You can have these back when you prove yourself trustworthy.”

The waterworks come on. The sobbing begins. The throwing of her body onto the floor in a manner that would make Scarlet O’Hara proud. Oy, SUCH drama…

The real kicker is that on Friday, a mere two days before, I let her pick out a new Littlest Pet Shop thingy that she had been bugging me about for a while now. It was her reward for a stellar report card.

Two days later, it’s up in my closet and I feel like a total jerk.

But I’m trying to send her a message that lying, while it’s not an abnormal behavior in seven year olds, is not acceptable. And yet, while I know my intentions are good, I STILL feel like a jerk.

And at what point do I deem her “trustworthy” again?

HOW do I make that determination?

Arrrgghhhhhhh!

One thing I do know?

Don’t be in a hurry for your babies and toddlers to grow up because this parenting gig?

It never gets any easier.

And the problems? They just get bigger and harder.

•••

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60 Responses to “Her Pants Are SO on Fire…”

  1. By dana on Nov 5, 2007

    This topic is something I worry about, too — and my little guy is only three. I don’t think I’ll know what to do either!

  2. By Mal on Nov 5, 2007

    Oh the lying. I was pretty much done with that with the genius, but now, now its the princess’ turn. She’s a tough one to crack as well…but like you, I know better. And to think, this is just the beginning.

  3. By Redneck mommy on Nov 5, 2007

    I’m having to deal with this particular subject myself, as of late.

    If you find a miracle solution, let me know, would ya? May save my sanity…

  4. By baby advice on Nov 5, 2007

    this is a hard subject for any parent! Keep us all posted if you find a solution that works!!

  5. By Average Jane on Nov 5, 2007

    That reminds me of the time I went to visit my sister and saw a note taped to the TV screen that said, “Liars don’t get to watch TV.” She was going through the same thing with my niece at the time.

  6. By Ree on Nov 5, 2007

    Your line “And the problems? They just get bigger and harder.” is sooo true. Hopefully she’ll learn the lesson before she gets too much older. My sixteen year old is just learning it now. And I hate that guilt feeling that settles on us as mothers, because you know (know!) that you’re doing the right thing and yet? You may as well stab yourself in the heart because of the hurt.

  7. By verybadcat on Nov 5, 2007

    You increase the punishment for lying. Went somewhere other than where you said you would be? Grounded for a week. Lied about it when asked? Two weeks! Threw an apple out? Probably nothing other than a stern warning. Lied about it? Toys got taken away. Doing bad stuff at school? Extra chores. Lied about it? Cleaning Mom and Dad’s bathroom.

    See? You catch her lying about something she’s done and double her punishment.

    My Mom did this, and I can’t lie for shit. At. All. WH knows when I lie. My friends know when I lie. My Mom? Well, not so much, but back in the day she was lie radar. Also? I don’t try to lie very much, ever. My boss will say “what happened here?”, and I reply “well, sir, I fucked it up real bad, cause I wasn’t paying enough attention”. Classic. I think he owes her a thank you note, matter of fact….

  8. By ~JJ! on Nov 5, 2007

    I am going through this same thing….

    It KILLS me!!!!

  9. By motherofbun on Nov 5, 2007

    We are starting to deal with this at our house too.

    Please blog about your game plan and how things wound up afterwards. Cause, yeah. Am clueless over here.

  10. By Amanda on Nov 5, 2007

    Um, this happened a few times with our 6 yr. old. Sometimes I think he just doesn’t understand really what he is doing and what it really means to lie.

  11. By MammaLoves on Nov 5, 2007

    Seriously. And the darn things did not come with a manual.

  12. By Mary Joan Koch on Nov 5, 2007

    Izzy, you wrote:

    I feel compelled to address it because one time it’s a small lie about something minor and before you know it, it’s a lie about going to watch movies at a girlfriend’s house when you’re really
    going to a party to hang out with your much older friends (and BOYS!) and partake in copious amounts of cheap beer and shwaggy, seedy marijuana.”

    In my 34 years of parenting, I rarely found that line of worrying helpful in deciding how to react in the present. I learn to avoid “before you know it” thinking, discovering it lead to unreasonable expectations of my young children. Lying about taking the last piece of candy does not lead to teenage acting out.

    I guess I would have assumed she had thrown away the apples and told her why she shouldn’t have. Over many years, I learned to count to 10 or 100 and not impose punishments in the heat of the moment I couldn’t carry out.

    I don’t want to seem to be pontificating. You know your child.

  13. By Izzy on Nov 5, 2007

    Um, that part about “before you know it”? That was actually a joke. But thanks for the advice.

  14. By Kirsten on Nov 5, 2007

    Uh, yeah. You felt like a jerk because you were a jerk.

    She lied because she didn’t trust you to be kind to her if she told you the truth. Do you think that by weilding your godly power over the prized toys, you’re going to teach her that you can be trusted?

    A couple of titles: “Unconditional Parenting” by Alfie Kohn; “How to Talk so Kids Will Listen” by Faber and Mazlish; “Kids are Worth It” by Barbara Coloroso. Any one of these is great, but all together they’ll give you a great toolbox for handling these little family conflicts, and the big ones too.

  15. By Izzy on Nov 5, 2007

    Wow..that’s kind of a harsh judgment of someone you don’t even know. I’m really not sure what to make of this comment but perhaps you should re-read the post. It was intended to be tongue-in-cheek.

    And for the record, despite your armchair assessment, I’ve never beaten a child for throwing apples in the sink.

    Pears? Definitely. But never apples.

    As for my “godly” [sic] power over the toys, you need to get a grip, lady. My kid lied. I took away her toys as a punishment. Would you prefer I beat the crap out of her? Are you one of THOSE people? Because I’m not.

  16. By Izzy on Nov 5, 2007

    I hear ya. At six and younger, the lying seemed more like wishful thinking.

  17. By Mary Joan Koch on Nov 5, 2007

    I realized that particular “before you know it” was a joke, but I confess I made countless stupid mothering decisions because that worry was in the back of my mind without my acknowledging it. Adolescence did not turn out to be as frightening as I feared when my little darlings were younger. My first daughter, Anne, should have been born with a printout: ” you will win 5 battles with this girl; choose them carefully.” I only learned what the important 5 battles were by losing hundreds of them:( With the three others, I had more of a clue. Of course with some of them, I could have won many more battles than I tried winning because they weren’t Anne the Bold.

  18. By Desert Songbird on Nov 5, 2007

    Argh! I HATE when my kids lie ESPECIALLY when it is patently OBVIOUS they are lying! You have to stick with your guns and keep the discipline. Or, the next thing you know it’s copious amounts of cheap beer and shwaggy, seedy marijuana.

  19. By b*babbler on Nov 5, 2007

    Ooh, lying would definitely be a deal breaker in our house. I can’t blame you for issuing some sort of punishment. It still sucks though…

  20. By Lori at Spinning Yellow on Nov 5, 2007

    Wow, you just never know what might get people riled up.

    I agree that the parenting doesn’t get any easier, only more complicated. And lying is tough. I would have reacted the same way, Izzy.

  21. By FENICLE on Nov 5, 2007

    I can’t believe the judgment you got over this little punishment. WOW.

    Anyways, I’ve reacted the same way many times for different situations. But I say the next time you ask her something and she tells you the truth flat out, you reward her by saying - “You could have lied to me about that, but you didn’t.” And then give the toy back. It should be hard to find something this week to catch her telling the truth over :)

  22. By Sueb0b on Nov 5, 2007

    The lesson: lying has consequences. Message received. You are a good, good mom.

  23. By Sueb0b on Nov 5, 2007

    She is going to teach her that Mom can be trusted to call her on her lies. Kids lie to see if they can get away with things. If no one calls them on it, they will keep lying. Accountability is one of the most important things a parent can teach. Now that I am old and my mom isn’t around to correct me, I have an inner adult that keeps me from acting like an ass. My parents gave me that inner adult by being willing to be “jerks” - to correct me when I needed correcting, to catch me when I needed to be caught.

    You’re right. I did not trust them to be kind when I screwed up. I trusted them to be stern. They never hit me, but they definitely disapproved of me when I did wrong. And since I wanted their approval, I learned to behave.

  24. By FeeFiFoto on Nov 5, 2007

    YAAAY!!!! Good for you! We all go through it and you handled it just the right way. Before too long you’ll catch her in a bit of honesty — you’ll know it when you see it — and she’ll have learned her lesson. What you did was humane, reasonable and logical.

    A couple years ago my son admitted that he’d been mean to a kid in his class, a kid who was quite annoying and always being picked on. I made him write a note of apology and give the boy a book we’d just bought (I was happy to do it, since the book was one of the Captain Underpants, so no great loss). Robespierre got the message, the kid got his apology, and Robey still remembers the consequence. The thing is, Robey and I talked about what he could do for this boy and giving him the book was actually his idea, not mine. We had a rational discussion, he came up with his own consequence, and he accepted it.

  25. By JayMonster on Nov 5, 2007

    Izzy, while Kirsten remarks were certainly a bit over the top, I think I understand the sentiment. Because I grapple with it now with a seven year old as well.

    The questions that is there (in my mind), when my daughter has lied to me is “Why?” I work very hard to try and build trust, and want my daughter to believe that she can always trust that she can tell me anything, without me blowing my stack.

    And what I think Kirsten was trying to get at was, how if that is the case here, where she lied because she feared retaliation or disappointing you, well then the possibility exists that the actions helped reinforce that.

    I’m not challenging, nor am I trying to say you are wrong. I am simply just looking at the other side (albeit in a bit more civil tone). As others have said… this would be so much easier if we just had a manual.

  26. By Izzy on Nov 5, 2007

    I’m not saying it was necessarily the best parenting I’ve ever done but by the same token, what would she learn from the experience if I just said “Don’t lie to me anymore”? Nothing.

    And I know this because it isn’t the first time I’ve caught her in a lie and in those cases, I DID have a talk with her and tell her that trust is very important and when it’s gone, it’s gone etc. which clearly had no impact on her at all.

    I felt like I needed to take a stand regardless of what her reasons were for lying.

    But I can assure all of you, I’ve never done anything to cause my daughter to fear of me to such a degree that she would lie over such little things.

    Kids lie.

    Why?

    For all sorts of reasons but I’m guessing, as Suebob said, that it’s primarily because they don’t want to face your disapproval.

    Could it be, in some cases, that they fear some draconian punishment? Of course.

    But not in this case. Time outs and losing a toy or privilege are our standard methods of discipline.

    So while I appreciate what you’re saying and I certainly appreciate the respectful manner in which you delivered it, as opposed to Kirsten who was simply rude, it’s not what you guys may be envisioning.

  27. By FeeFiFoto on Nov 6, 2007

    Once the smoke has cleared from an incident like this, I always “revisit” the situation. I find a time when I can be alone with the perpetrator (bedtime, bath time, carpool, whatever) and have a calm and mature conversation about what transpired, what went wrong, what could have been done differently, and the relationship between the transgression and the consequence. We discuss strategies for the next time the child might be tempted to lie or behave inappropriately in some other fashion. At the end of the conversation I always praise my son or daughter for handling the consequences maturely. I won’t say never, but I will say that the great majority of the time my child will agree that the “punishment” fit the “crime”.

    I’m sorry this has turned into a hot button issue for you. I believe you addressed the issue appropriately and the last thing you need when you’re fighting self-doubt is condemnation.

  28. By Pamela Kramer on Nov 6, 2007

    Good luck! Mine is 18 and still doesn’t tell the truth. It’s the fear and the autopilot mechanism. I tried the punish more route and that didn’t work either. I try the - “just tell me the truth” over and over! “I can handle the truth be mature about it and put it out there” I tell her. It sucks.

  29. By daring one on Nov 6, 2007

    We’re really struggling with this right now? What’s the right “natural consequence” for lying? Probably that people won’t trust you anymore but it’s really hard to impress the seriousness of that on them when they’re little. I’m stumped myself.

  30. By boogiemum on Nov 6, 2007

    As I always tell my kids “bad choices, get bad results” I think you did the right thing by taking her toy away. Now I would try and find some thing that she was honest about to point out and really praise, then give her the toy back :)

  31. By SciFi Dad on Nov 6, 2007

    I agree that something had to be done in response to the lying, but I don’t think that taking away toys is the answer, personally (this isn’t meant as criticism; just opinion-sharing, so please don’t take offense).

    I’m a firm believer in natural consequences. Think like your kid: “I lied to Mommy. Lying is wrong. Why is lying wrong?”

    Why is lying wrong? Logically, it’s because if she begins to lie you cannot trust her. So, what is a way to demonstrate to her that she has lost your trust?

    Trusting one’s children is demonstrated in the freedoms you allow them. Now, she is only 7, so she likely has few freedoms, but she must have some. There must be choices she can make, things she can do without your approval and/or supervision.

    Take one (or more) of these things, ideally something she feels strongly about, and take away that liberty. Now she sees the impact of lost trust.

    In her mind, she’ll easily make the connection: Lie –> No Trust –> Loss of Freedom

    Just my $0.02.

  32. By g-man on Nov 6, 2007

    I agree that kind of thing is unacceptable. I try to emphasize to my little ones that it is ALWAYS better to tell the truth and own up to what you have done. That and lying kills daddy a little each time.

  33. By Melissa Garrett on Nov 6, 2007

    Oy! This sounds awfully familiar. My eight-year-old daughter lies, lies, lies. No matter how many times I say that lying is hurtful and that I would rather her tell the truth, no matter how awful, all I get are lies . . .

  34. By She Likes Purple on Nov 6, 2007

    I’m not a mom, but I think you did the right thing. I know it must be tough, but you’re teaching her something. I want a baby. But that’s all I want. A baby. No kid necessary ;)

  35. By Mav on Nov 6, 2007

    I must admit I felt if this is the first time you’ve caught her lying to you the punishment was a bit harsh, but it’s hard to know in the heat of the moment what to do. I do think lying about something deserves something extra, but you also need to be able to convince your child to tell you the truth without fear of being yelled at about it.

    That was how it was in my fmaily. We lied about everything because if we told the truth we received a “Thanks for not lying, but you still are going to jail without passing go.”

    Didnt really help us any.

    by the way, have you ever read the “Love and Logic” series?

  36. By Izzy on Nov 6, 2007

    I totally get what you’re saying but I’m inclined to disagree that the ‘natural consequences” approach works in all cases and particularly in my case.

    To me, the natural consequence of blatantly lying to your mother when she gave you numerous chances to tell the truth is she punishes you by taking away something that will have some immediate impact on you.

    I just don’t think that not allowing my daughter the freedom to do something a week after the transgression occurred is going to have the same impact on her at this age. I think when she’s 15 and wants to do something with her friends, it might be more effective

    I do think natural consequences can work where physical pain is involved. For example, if you tell a child not to touch a hot stove and they do and burn themselves, that’s got what I previously referred to as some “impact” and it’s immediate.

    The scenario you presented really doesn’t. Trust is intangible and doesn’t really have the same kind of impact when it’s broken unless a parent creates that impact by, say, taking away a toy.

    But thanks for your intelligent and thoughtful comment. It’s nice to know we can respectfully disagree without resorting to name calling like some people. (Yes, Kirsten. I’m referring to you)

  37. By Laura on Nov 6, 2007

    Parenting is hard and as kids get older, I think it gets harder…

  38. By elizabuffy on Nov 6, 2007

    Hi, I’m a new commenter. Thanks so much for sharing this story. I think you acted exactly appropriately because you told her that if she had not lied to you there would have been no punishment or disaproval. I believe you effectively conveyed that throwing apples in the sink was not a problem, but rather lying was a problem.

    The most compelling advice I read on this was that when children are still young that you not give them any chances to lie that you don’t have to. You know that she put the apples in the sink so you just say “Oh, I see you put these apples in the sink, I want you to know, that next time you should offer them to me or your brother before you throw them away.” Then you have taught her a lesson in consideration of other people instead of having a dilemma about how to punish lying. Have you or anyone else tried this and does it work? My kid is still too young for us to be dealing with this issue

  39. By Izzy on Nov 6, 2007

    I should clarify that at first, I didn’t know who put the apples in the sink. I didn’t know my son was still eating so when i asked her, it was an honest question, rather than a set-up to catch her in a lie. It was only when I looked around the corner and saw my son eating that I realized I’d just been lied to.

    But it’s a good thing to keep in mind for the future. Thanks!

  40. By elizabuffy on Nov 6, 2007

    I should clarify that I was using your situation as a hypothetical not saying that that’s what happened and I didn’t explain that well in the comment. Things never happen the way experts say they will, do they?

    Good luck with this situation!

  41. By Kvetch on Nov 6, 2007

    Just a suggestion - make sure TQ knows what she needs to do to earn your trust again. The first time I told my son I couldn’t trust him (he was hitting his sister on the head repeatedly) it took time for me to understand that he didn’t really even know what that meant. I’d really gone over his head. I don’t remember how old your daughter is, but just something to consider. Make sure she “gets” why you need to trust her - and that you don’t want to doubt everything she says. Maybe I’ll looking too deeply into this. It was an apple, I realize that. She was obviously afraid you’d be a little mad - especially if in the past you’ve told her not to throw away food in the sink. I’m rambing…

  42. By Kirsten on Nov 6, 2007

    So your choices are punish her one way, or punish her another? Here’s a totally radical approach — don’t punish. Or reward. Punishments and rewards are manipulative, they don’t get to the heart of what makes us moral, thinking humans. It is entirely possible to teach without deliberately inflicting torment. Think outside the box.

    Check out “Punished by Rewards” by Kohn. You might enjoy it. Food for thought, anyway.

  43. By Izzy on Nov 6, 2007

    I firmly believe that children need limits, boundaries, rules… whatever you want to call them and they need to know the consequences of breaking them. Out in the real world, there ARE consequences and they aren’t of the Kumbaya variety.

    I’ve been around kids raised without boundaries or limits and who have never been accountable for their behavior and their very well-meaning parents now have obnoxious children who are unable to function outside their home and homeschool environment.

    Furthermore, your first comment, in which you call me a jerk and proceed to verbally crucify me, speaks volumes about how enlightened you truly are, which is to say not much.

    That said, I won’t be taking your advice, however well-intentioned and frankly, if you think taking a toy away from a child for lying is, as you say, “inflicting torment”, which is patently absurd, then we have nothing further to discuss because your dogma is beyond all reason in my estimation.

  44. By Aprylsantics on Nov 7, 2007

    Why didn’t you just call TQ a jerk, since according to some, name calling apparently fits into the philosophy of good parenting?

  45. By Jen on Nov 7, 2007

    I had the exact same scenario at my house last week, except that it was a banana in the garbage can. I completely agree that there needs to be an immediate negative consequence, so that the child understands lying is not acceptable. And I think a 7-year-old is definitely old enough to understand the pain of having toys taken away, and relate that to her behavior.

  46. By JayMonster on Nov 7, 2007

    “So while I appreciate what you’re saying … it’s not what you guys may be envisioning.”

    As I said, I was not actually disagreeing with you so much as trying to (properly) put some context to “the other side” of the argument.

    Obviously nobody knows all of what led up to this, so I would be remiss to pass judgment, because as you point out this is not the first time, and you have already taken other steps.

    To clarify, what I meant by “fearing” a parent was not meant as some “Draconian” evil, but easily nothing more than what Suebob said. Facing “disapproval” from a parent is sometimes more scary for a young kid than a time out or loss of privileges.

    And finally, let me just for the record state that your methods (time outs and loss of privileges) is how we handle such things in our household as well, so like I said initially I was more to “devils advocate” than anything else.

  47. By saintamyjane on Nov 7, 2007

    My daughter was around this age when she started lying… well when I realized it was going on anyway. I know when she is lying. Maybe when she was little she was just to cute to not believe… i don’t know. She can’t get one by me now… and she’ll NEVER get marijuana by me… he he.. x;)

  48. By Izzy on Nov 7, 2007

    You mean you DON’T think taking a toy away is “inflicting torment”?

    *gasp*

    ;p

  49. By Kimberly on Nov 7, 2007

    Ok, I’m gonna get crucified, but here goes….Yeah, kids lie. And they need to learn to that it is NOT ok. We, as parents, need to teach them that.

    Thing is–since you kinda asked, or at least opened the door–the way this was handled…the interrogation, the good cop act, and then the punishment when she did what you asked her to do? I don’t think it did teach her that lying is wrong. I think it taught her that lying badly is wrong.

    I had a mother who parented this way. Who would betray your trust and punish you for compliance. And you know what? I’m a brilliant liar. Because I learned that telling the truth wasn’t really to my benefit, and getting caught sucked, I simply got better at it. (I’d like to note here that I wasn’t even a particularly bad kid. I never drank before I was of age, and I’ve never touched an illegal drug. But I got very good very early at living my life around my mother and her control.)

    She’s your kid, and outside of abuse (which this wasn’t), you get to parent her however you see fit. I just wanted to bring some perspective in on the other side.

  50. By Izzy on Nov 7, 2007

    As noted, this wasn’t exactly one for the archives of stellar parenting, hence feeling like a jerk BUT (and that’s a BIG but)…

    I did NOT punish for compliance. I punished her for what I already knew to be true. Even if she hadn’t finally confessed, I already knew she was lying and I told her so.

    So really, I’m damned if I do punish her because then I may compromise her trust in me to be fair (which I don’t think I was unfair) and I’m damned if I don’t punish her because, as evidenced by past behavior, talking and lecturing has done no good when trying to teach that lying is unacceptable.

    So really, I have no options at all. That makes me feel A LOT better….

  51. By Izzy on Nov 7, 2007

    She’s seven and from what she’s said during some of our discussions about trust and lying, I get the impression she has a fairly good grasp of what I’m talking about.

    Actually, food in the sink has never been an issue. Personally, I think she hates being lectured, as I’m prone to do in such situations.

  52. By Diana on Nov 7, 2007

    Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t. The Princess, my oldest, is six now. I feel your pain. Do you get the big ‘ol eyes with the complete silence too? I HATE the complete silence. I asked you a question kid! Answer! UGH! Motherhood. ;)

  53. By Kimberly on Nov 7, 2007

    Please don’t feel I was attacking you. I’ve got a nearly nine year old of my own, so I’m right there in the trenches with you. I know how frustrating it can be, and how irritating it is when someone who has nowhere near the parenting experience you do comes in to Monday Morning Quarterback your parenting.

    You’re right, we’re screwed either way. There are no right answers; we’re all just feeling our way in the dark, trying not to fall into that huge abyss we can sense right around the corner. No one is perfect all the time. Even the crunchiest, most child centric, kumbayaya parent fucks it up, loses her temper, reacts in the heat of the moment out of anger and frustration. It happens. We’re mommies. We feel the guilt, resolve to do better next time, and move on.

  54. By crazymumma on Nov 8, 2007

    There is a wonderful yet very young book called the Big Fat Enormous Lie. I highly recommend it.

    littlegirl has been caught in several lies, she is good at it whereas bigirl could not lie to save her life.

    To me the lie about the misdeed is far worse than the misdeed itself and it is the lie that needs to be addressed. In my mind I always look down the road and imagine them lying to me about the huge stuff. you know. the stuff that really matters.

    I have told my girls that lies have a way of growing and becoming something that just eats us up inside.

  55. By Karen Rani on Nov 8, 2007

    Parenting is hard enough without ripping apart each other’s methods. Not to mention I don’t know any job that requires so much thinking on your feet, improv, all the while loving these little creatures that take your heart and throw it in the sink with the apples one minute, and curl up inside it the next.

    I think some of us here would agree that this is one of those cases where a) it won’t matter in 10 years; and b) should not be judged.

    The only time I think a parent ought to be judged is if the child is being abused. Let’s find active ways to support each other, and LEARN from each other.

    Having said that, I won’t say whether I would have done things Izzy’s way or not, because as long as I’m not back handing my kid or verbally tearing them down, it does not matter.

  56. By Jessica on Nov 8, 2007

    First of all, I think you did the right thing. We live in an age where too many parents are afraid to “punish” (hello, consequences) their children because they are afraid it’s too harsh and their children won’t like them anymore. The result is all the little precious darlings I see all day long who don’t think they have to behave.

    Second, she didn’t lie to you because she didn’t “trust” you enough to be “kind” about the apple, she lied to you because she knew that your weren’t happy, and she did something wrong. On the upside, she is a good enough, and smart enough kid to recognize that she made a mistake, and on the downside, she lied to get out of “trouble.” You are teaching her it’s not OK to lie to you, and that, folks, is important.

    At her age, and at this point, whether the consequence you dished out fits the crime is beside the point. The important part is sticking to your consequence - folding would just reinforce the idea that you will cave if you feel guilty enough. The best parenting my mother did was sticking to whatever punishment she doled out - it taught me that she MEANT WHAT SHE SAID.

    She’s seven - even two days will feel like an eternity to her. So wait two days, bring out the toys, reiterate that you took them away because she lied to you and not because she threw the apple in the sink, ask for an apology for lying, and then give them back. Sure, she’s gonna lie again - many times - but I’ll bet you she’ll think twice before she does.

  57. By kittenpie on Nov 8, 2007

    OUr neighbour’s kid totally had something of Pumpkinpie’s in her hand, knew we were looking for it, and lied about not knowing where it was. She’s four. I was really pissed, but left it to her father to handle, of course, after hinting that she SAID she didn’t know where it was, but that he knew her better than I. I’m guessing by 7, they have more finesse about it, too. Ack!

    I’d be mad, too, but as you say, it’s a tough call about how to prove herself trustworthy. I tend to give her a warning about if it happens again, I will remove whatever it is, so she has a chance to show me how she can NOT do it. Still with the drama, though.

  58. By Erin Brown on Nov 16, 2007

    My son has ADHD, trust me I understand about the lying thing. He is finally able to tell me the truth when he has behavior issues at school and he is honestly disappointed in himself when it happens. The road was long and I felt as if I had given birth to Damien the Omen at one point. It does get better, but as a parent you totally have to stand your ground and make sure to set good examples and not let them walk all over you, no matter how cute they are! =D

  59. By Jenifer on Nov 27, 2007

    Oy, and I think that my daughter is tough at 3…. I can’t wait.

  60. By Artiom on Dec 19, 2007

    I hate lie! My baby is small but I in future… I’m afraid of such situation.

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