Hungry Hearts Pt II
This is part 2 of this post.
Recently, my daughter has been coming home from school and telling me terrible things; things I don’t want to hear, like that someone kicked her in the back on the slide. Twice. Hard.
Things like a boy in her class stamped on her foot as hard as he could for no reason.
Things like a little girl (that I happen to really dislike because she lies like a rug) who is supposed to be my daughter’s friend punched her in the stomach several times over the course of a day.
Things like she doesn’t want to go to school because some of the kids are so mean.
You can’t imagine how much it infuriates me to hear these things day after day. TQ is usually bubbly and social and fun-loving and carefree and though she’s very resilient, it still breaks my heart to see her so dispirited. It isn’t in her nature.
Anyway, those are just a mere sampler of what my six year old has been dealing with in kindergarten. KINDERGARTEN. And yes, I know kids will be kids. I’ve already heard that lame, pathetic excuse for completely inappropriate and totally anti-social behavior and I’m not buying it so please…DON’T leave me a comment to that effect.
So. I called the teacher, whom I like and respect very much, the afternoon before our scheduled parent-teacher conference (just a general meeting to discuss academics, test scores etc) to let her know that at the conference I want to discuss the excessive physical aggression that my daughter has been subjected to at school. She was very agreeable and understood why I was upset, seeing as this would be my second time contacting her on the matter. I also called some other mothers that I know well to see if their children have had similar experiences and guess what? They have. No big surprise.
At the meeting, after discussing academics, which my daughter is excelling at, I explained that TQ has been hit or hurt more in the past six weeks at this school than she has ever been in the past six years of her life. This kind of behavior is not something we are used to. Of course, when kids are two and three, they do hit and bite but they are very young and still learning the ropes of socialization. At ages five and six, kids know, or SHOULD know, that it’s unacceptable to hit someone.
And though I had an inkling of what the reasons were behind the behavior of some of these kids, I had never fully thought it through until this conference.
The teacher told me she had been at a very rough school before this one and that in her experience, it is a process to teach kids to behave at school and undo everything they have learned elsewhere, that it can take a while but eventually some headway gets made.
Apparently TQ’s school, despite the fact that it is in a fairly affluent zip code, is a big “special assignment” school which means kids come here from all over. Many of them come from areas where their own neighborhood schools are really bad and while this doesn’t mean that every kid that is on special assignment is a troublemaker, every child that has hit my daughter is, in fact, on special assignment.
Additionally, the majority of these kids have been in daycare of some kind since they were six weeks old and now spend their post-school hours in daycare/aftercare with children of all ages. Anyone with half a brain knows it’s not a good idea to let the little kids and the bigger kids mix unsupervised. They need to be separated but they often aren’t. Because of this dog-eat-dog environment, kids become aggressive from having to fight for everything. And, for the record, I have witnessed this with my own eyes.
It has also been my observation that there are never enough staff to watch all the children and many get lost in the shuffle, having to fend for themselves on a daily basis. They aren’t taught the proper way to behave at daycare and apparently aren’t learning it at home, either. And I know not all daycares are bad but the three after-care programs that I have observed in the past three years have left much to be desired in the way of supervision.
As noted in part I of this post, it seems like these kids also don’t get nearly enough adult attention. They seem starved for someone to notice them and take an interest in them. When kids are that hungry for attention, they don’t seem to care if it’s positive attention or negative, as long as they get some and that, IMO, also accounts for a lot of negative behavior in the classroom.
As you can see, there are a plethora of reasons why kids might come to kindergarten completely unprepared to function in an environment where proper socialization is required. Add to this the fact, according to TQ’s teacher, that some parents are completely uninvolved in their child’s school experience and it’s no wonder kids are acting the way they do.
She told me some parents never showed up for conferences, some never even returned the form confirming the time and date. She said some kid’s folders, which are supposed to be emptied and sent back to school each day, have NEVER been emptied. They have six weeks of work in them and they don’t return her phone calls, assuming she has a working number for them.
And my first instinct is to scream “What the hell is wrong with you people??? Why did you even have kids?”
I really, really wanted to blame the parents. My attitude was “I gave up my career and put my entire life on hold for the past six years. I’ve done everything I possibly could for my daughter to give her the best possible start in life. WHY do we have to suffer because other people didn’t? Why does my daughter have to be the sacrificial lamb while these other kids learn to be semi-normal human beings? It’s not fair!”
And I don’t think anyone would fault me for feeling like that. But somehere in my heart, I know it’s wrong to simply blame the parents and leave it at that. I know this is just a symptom of something much, much larger.
I mean sure, some of them, a few, are probably just rotten people but I have to believe that most people do love their children. If they went through all the trouble and mountains of paperwork to get their children into a school on special assignment, they must care about them, right?
We may scrape by and live month to month but many would say I’m lucky. One might even go so far as to say I am privileged because I am able to stay at home with my kids. For some people, however, working outside the home is not optional. They HAVE to work to put food on the table and pay the bills and have health insurance and thus, they have to utilize daycare.
But it’s here that my empathy starts to waver a bit because yeah, so you work… Does that mean you can’t take 60 seconds to look at your child’s schoolwork everyday? Does that mean you can’t find a moment in your day to return a phone call to your child’s teacher? Or sign your name to a form and stick it in their backpack? Can you spend some quality time with your child instead of sticking them in front of the TV or Playstation? (I’ve heard these kids talk about going home and playing videogames for hours) Can you make sure they have lunch money or take a moment to sign them up for free lunch? At what point does being a working parent (or an “economically-challenged” or a single parent) cease to be an excuse?
Conversely, I have observed that while many will give working parents a pass, our society really doesn’t like “economically-challenged” people very much. The prevailing attitude is that their hardships are justly deserved because if you’re poor, you MUST have done something really wrong to be in that position, right? But when people are trapped in a cycle of poverty, is it really their fault? Doesn’t society owe them a leg up, if only to save their children and their children’s children? Wouldn’t that help everyone including teachers and innocent bystanders like my daughter?
The whole thing just makes my head spin. I could sit here for hours rolling all this around in my mind and trying to find the guilty party and still not know how to save the kids that are in these situations or how to fix a system that does very little to help working, single and/or economically-challenged parents. And what’s going to happen to these children? ? Doesn’t anyone even consider that these kids will one day be adults?
As for my own child, how do I save HER? And yes, she does need to be saved. I know because I was her. I was a six year old in a class where the teacher didn’t give a damn that the boy behind me hit me in the head about 30 times a day, EVERY day. My father told me that if the teacher wouldn’t do anything, that I would have to defend myself and that’s just what I did. The next time the boy hit me in the head, I turned around and hit him over HIS head with my math book. And guess who got in trouble? Me.
I’m not going to let my daughter’s first school experience turn out like that and thus, I have some decisions to make. Do we wait it out and see if it gets better? Do we start looking at private schools that we can’t really afford? Do I look for someone with an address I can use in the district of a school that doesn’t have a large “special assignment” population? A school where parents are involved and present in their children’s lives? I know the perfect school doesn’t exist but I also know people from other schools who, in the first six weeks of kindergarten, have had NO incidents of physical aggression towards their children.
These are hard questions because everything else aside, I do like this school. And the teacher did have a talk with the class, explaining that hitting is not acceptable etc. It’s only been a couple days but TQ says everything has been going well and that nobody has hit her.
I hope it lasts but I’m afraid it won’t.
EDITED TO ADD:
In response to some comments…
Yes, I realize that kids of any class or background can be bullying jerks. It just so happens that in THIS case, the kids range from somewhat to very underprivileged and have, according to the survey taken at registration, spent their entire lives in daycare, which, in my opinion is the root of many of the problems we are dealing with. Additionally, I have to say that during the time my daughter spent in a private school where the kids (except mine and a couple others) came from very affluent families, there was not one single incident of physical aggression towards my daughter or her friends BUT there was some social bullying that occurred. You can draw your own conclusions…
As for dealing with the problem, we have taught TQ to let the teacher know when somebody hurts her. This has been a challenge for her because she’s never been one to “tattletale” but she now tells the teacher without hesitation and the teacher does what little she’s able to do with kindergarteners, which is usually a time-out or missing recess.
My husband has also taken it upon himself to teach her how to throw a punch, which I’m not too thrilled about. BUT…given my own history, I do support the idea that someday she might have to handle a situation herself so I’d rather she be prepared. Good thing she’s pretty tough. I’d have a hard time imagining a more delicate girl decking someone.
BUT, again, I also agree with the teacher that teaching a child to hit in response to a problem only exacerbates it. So, I’m not 100% sure where I am on the whole “hit ‘em back” school of thought. I just know that it makes me really sad to have to teach my daughter to do something that we’ve previously taught her is wrong. We teach our kids NOT to hit and then this crap happens. So frustrating.
The “kids will be kids” remarks did not come from the school or the teacher. That came from people I know socially and from people whose children have been grown for oh…about 40 years. It’s a stupid, ignorant thing to say.
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Yikes! Its been so long that I forgot how mean kids can be.
I went to private schools until 11th grade, that kind of stuff happened there too (just not as much).
I would vote for teaching defensive tactics like your dad taught you. It’s not the best solution, but it’s a good last resort.
I am so sorry, Izzy. How heartbreaking. My son goes to a private school (which we can’t afford). He always has. We haven’t had any problems. I don’t think it is because they were private schools…I think it was because they are small. My son has sensory integration issues and we need a small school to help with that.
I wouldn’t try to change schools using another address, because you would find there are problems there too, I am afraid. I wish I had some advice for you. Just keep being an advocate for TQ, which I am sure you will. Address every situation as it comes. Don’t let anything slide. When people brush things off as kids will be kids, it allows the bad behavior to perpetuate unchecked. Maybe having to be accountable for their kids’ unacceptable behavior over and over will make an impression. I don’t know. Sorry you have to deal with it.
Mel
I so feel for you.
My son came home with these stories too, how his FRIEND had pushed him and now they’re not friends anymore. He was so sad. Ten minutes later this friend calls to come and play. He didn’t even know that anything was wrong! For him this was quite normal while my son sat home with a broken spirit.
I’m at loss how to deal with this.
There may be tons of problems in every childs life but I think it is the teachers responsibility to create an atmosphere of respect. Teasing, hitting, pushing should never be ignored! A lot of times teachers seem to think that behavior like that is acceptable “let them fight it out, thats what growing up is all about!”.
And that is just WRONG!
These posts break my heart and terrify me at the same time. The school my son is supposed to go to next year has a very similar situation. And I struggle too on where to place the blame - the parents? the school? the system? the government?
I am a mom who is also working out of the home full time. And I have time to meet with the teacher and do homework and sign forms and take days off for field trips. I grew up poor and so did my husband and our parents worked more than one job each and did the same thing for us. That isn’t an excuse
Go over the teacher’s head if necessary, talk to the principal- AND read the school handbook; they probably have a code of conduct.
You ask a lot of good question re: the parents of the other children, but your first job, as you well know, is to keep your child safe and happy so she can learn in that environment. The teacher is right, learning, or “unlearning” behaviors IS a process. One which, in my opinion should involve consequences. Find out what the school and the classroom teacher have in place.
The behaviour you describe transcends both borders and social classes. It existed when I was a student 40 years ago and is alive and well today in my children’s classrooms. It comes in a physical as well as a verbal component and is alive and well in both public and private schools. I would love to think that there is an easy answer but the reality is there is not. Continue to protect your child but teach her to stand up for herself; the bullies will be there her whole life in one way or another.
There is a zero tolerance policy in most canadian and US schools be the squeekie whell and get some action.
ma
SIGH. Though I live in an affluent area, many of the same problems exist. Bad parenting is not a disease of the lower class, although of course, the issues are exacerbated by all the problems you describe. My children attended private school for a time, but there came a point when we had to choose between keeping them in private school, or me continuing to stay home. We couldn’t do both.
First, I want to say that being involved, being visible, and making yourself known as someone who will always advocate for your child is the BEST thing you can do. An administrator will always make time for a parent they know and respect.
Second, though of course we want to shield our children from the issues, I think a certain amount of adversity is necessary (yes, even in kindergarten) to teach them how to handle conflict. My oldest child is an incredibly kind and placid child. He is a pacifist at heart. But he had to learn that sometimes, you have to stick up for yourself. It’s a hard lesson, but a valuable one, I think. And even though YOU got in trouble, it taught you something about yourself, didn’t it?
Chin up. You’re doing everything right. And your kids will turn out okay because you care.
While I understand that kids have to “unlearn” behaviors brought into the school setting, there should still be a Zero Tolerance policy for bullying. Period. This behavior is inappropriate. Not suspending or chastizing the offending bully just reinforces the behavior. Waiting for it to go away while your daughter suffers is just not acceptable. Period.
Maybe it’s time to find out what the written policy is regarding school bullies. Of course, it is going to be very difficult for both the teacher who enforces the Zero Tolerance of bullying and the parent of the bully. What parent wants to find out their child is a bully and has been suspended … it’s much easier to say “oh, it’s typical kid stuff?”
But, it HAS to be done. If your school does not have a Zero Tolerance policy, then one needs to be written up and implemented. I know that this won’t be easy, but to me it’s no different than a Zero Drug Tolerance policy or a Zero Weapon Tolerance policy. These behaviors just simply must not be allowed to continue without defined consequences under the guise of re-teaching appropriate behaviors because it’s just easier to deal with it that way.
In essence, to me, it doesn’t matter what a bully has learned to do at home, while in the school setting, once in the school setting, the school must have specific guidelines and not a “wait and see” attitude.
Why should you even be thinking about moving your daughter? Why should she suffer punishment when she has not done anything wrong?
A policy should be written to state that if a bully is suspended more than three times, he/she will be expelled. Period. The parent who has no obvious inclination to stop this behavior should be put in the position of finding another school for their little bullying tyke. Not you.
And so, I think that’s what you need to do. Stop putting yourself in the defensive position. You have taken the time to nurture your daughter and to behavior appropriately and you should expect nothing less from her peers. And if they are not able to display the same consideration, they need to go.
I don’t think you were satisfied with her teacher’s explanation / justification. And I totally agree with your assessment. But I think you need to take the offense position and insist that the teacher and the School Board realize that bullying, even in Kindergarten, is a Zero Tolerance issue.
And if parents of non-violent kids are pulling all their kids out because of the school’s inability to initiate a written policy regarding bullies, and ENFORCES that policy, then they are going to be left with a bunch of kids who are going to end up as juvenile delinquents down the road because of their inability to act.
I know how your heart felt listening to your daughter tell you what has happened to her. It just makes my heart ache for her little, broken heart.
I’m sorry I rambled … this really riled me.
As a teacher and a mom…I am terrified to send my daughter to school for the reasons you described. I have seen it all and I fear for my daughter. Some parents just don’t deserve to be parents and they expect others to handle their kids. Wrong. The teacher sounds like she’s doing her job, and it’s good that you are making your concerns public. but if I were you, I’d keep checking up on the situation. Kids like the ones you describe are a handful for any teacher. She just may not be able to handle it all by herself.
You know, It may not happen in the classroom. It could take place in the cafeteria, the schoolyard, the bus. The teacher isn’t there..so she needs to incorporate other professionals to keep any eye out as well. It is so difficult to do. Your school sounds great, keep being a strong presence there…That is a privilege of a SAHM…use it at school like you are already doing at home ! Get the Principal or the Social workers involved.
In the meantime (as I’m sure you are already doing) talk to your daughter and tell her everything you think she should do to handle the situation. It will help her to know you are there for her.
Good luck. I hope to hear better news next time.
I feel for you and your daughter. No one should be afraid to go to school. I agree with Sunshine Scribe that being a working parent is no excuse for not paying attention to your child. No matter how little energy I have at the end of the day, I will try to prepare a healthy supper. I look forward to time in my day that I get to focus on them. My housework is suffering but I would rather have well adjusted children then a spotless house.
I can’t even offer any advice to you. I would hate to say give it time and then find out about all the times that TQ is hurt. Continue to be her champion and if she has to retaliate with a hit back to the bully, stand up for her if she gets in trouble. At least she is thriving academically.
I’m going through something similar with my eldest son who just started school. I want to protect him but at the same time teach him how to deal with it without getting in trouble himself. I wish I was confident the teacher/school could prevent any bullying but there are just too many children. I find it sad we have to think about these things when they are so small.
Izzy, that’s awful. I completely understand how you feel. We’ve been having some issues in Kindergarten too. My daughter was pushed on the bus and I got in touch with the teacher and the school took care of it. My daughter goes to private school and what I like about that is that they have more control over the behavior of students, as in, follow our rules or you’re out of here. However, there’s no reason that a public school can’t get kids behaving as they should. Stay on top of it, as you already are because at this young age, we are their only advocates. I was nervous about getting involved so early in the year. I didn’t want to be labeled as that annoying parent (I used to teach so I know all about them). But a parent who is concerned about their child who is being bullied? You can’t be involved too much.
My daughter has been doing a great job of verbally defending herself since the initial incident. We did some role playing with her and she doesn’t take any crap anymore. I did this with her after doing some researching on bullies and how to have your child handle them. I’d also recommend karate, if she’s interested in that. It does wonders for self-esteem and I think that’s a big part of why my daughter has been defending herself (not physically, just laying down the law verbally). Sorry to ramble. I could just feel your pain. I so know what you’re talking about. I felt like I was reading something I wrote.
Izzy, that sucks. I hope things continue to improve. It’s so hard to see this kind of behavior from parents! Horrible.
Wow I totally hope things improve too! It is hard to understand where the kids and families come from when it is so different from our own experience.
The good news is that your daughter is very fortunate to have you. I’m not sure what to tell you about the other kids, except that it stinks. When my daughter started Kindergarten, there was a bigger kid that used to pull her hair and call her names. My daughter was most upset not about the pain the girl caused her, but she was super concerned with WHY a person would do such a thing. She just couldn’t understand why a person would hurt someone else on purpose. It is so sad to me that people sometimes have kids and then don’t pay any attention to them. In my neighborhood, there are a few kids like that, and while I don’t think it should be my responsibility to mother all the kids in the world, I have started trying to get these kids to come over more so they can have some attention. Everyone has a gift in this world, and I think my main gift is with children. Unfortunately the kids that come over don’t have parents who care to pay attention, but they do have me and that is better than no one. I’m hoping to make a difference in at least a few kids lives (besides my own kids of course).
What I think really stinks is that my daughter is really good and follows all the rules. Her teacher tends to punish the whole class when one child (or a group of children) misbehaves with the theory that the kids will then get each other to behave. What my daughter is learning is that it doesn’t matter how good she is, she will be punished (by taking away snack or recess, which I didn’t think was legal!) anyway, so why try to be good. Luckily, so far she hasn’t started acting up, but I don’t see why she wouldn’t if she keeps getting punished when doing the right thing. Being a teacher is hard work. Being a parent is hard work. I just wish there was a way for people who need help with parenting to get it without such a stigma attached to it. Maybe then all these kinds of problems would go away and the good kids wouldn’t have to learn how to deal with this. Good luck! I absolutely know how hard this all is and wish there was an easy answer!
Well, I was going to chime in with my two cents, but it looks as if a whole pack of people have said (very eloquently too) what I wanted to say.
Become your child’s advocate. Get involved in the school. Volunteer. Communicate with the teachers and administrators as well as with the kids. I hope your kiddy hangs tough. She’s very lucky to have such a passionate momma.
I do believe by being involved in the school you will help not only your child but all those other kids out there who are clamouring for some adult attention.
Good luck Izzy.
This is a really sucky situation.
It sounds to me like a lot of the problems seem to occur on the playground. It may be very difficult to provide adequate supervision on the school playground, but, really, there’s simply no excuse for violent behavior. There should be a zero-tolerance policy with regard to kindergarteners kicking, punching, and hitting each other.
I have no idea whether it’s feasible, but perhaps you and some of the other parents could speak with the teacher about the idea of having some parents provide a little extra volunteer supervision at recess? The idea would be to have the kids know that they’re being watched, that they are expected to behave a certain way, and that violent behavior will not be tolerated.
Good luck with the whole situation. I hate to think of your little girl getting hit by other kids.
If you ever want info about Girlie’s school, just let me know. We have been very happy there and she is in her fourth year at the school. Other than the time Girlie whacked somebody with her rolled up floor rug just to see what would happen, there hasn’t been any aggression in her experience.
One thing you can do is try to start some type of “club” after school. If you have time, a club (friendship club, language club anything goes) is a good way to help in a community where kids can sign up that are in after care. So they get enrichment for at least one hour a week AND your kids will be in a supervised social situation and make friends with perhaps the kids that are being so mean. Often kids don’t know how to be friendly without being agressive - like the teacher says, they haven’t been taught at home. It takes parent involvement to break the ice and give them social scripts and guidence. It ofen does fall on the involved parents to plan and operate these type of clubs. I agree with Arabella, more supervision on the playground is needed. You might have to go above the teacher and talk to the VP or P. Or bring it up at the PTA. I was at my son’s kindergarten class many times a week in the class and on the playground. Often it was HIM that was the agressor in matters. I was there to diffuse and see who the players are. Good luck. 1st Grade is much better!
You could always teach TQ to say, really loudly “HEY WE AREN’T SUPPOSED TO HIT!” or something like that when it happens so that the teacher knows about it and is forced to take action.
My friend who is a yellow-dog democrat said that she was afraid she was going to turn into a conservative when her child entered school precisely because of issues like these. She said, “yeah, I was all for underachieving kids being in mainstream schools until MY kids reading was sacrificed.” *sigh*
Good luck and keep us posted.
Izzy, I agree that parental involvement is key. I hope you can continue to stay involved with TQ’s class and communicate with her teacher and the principal.
But I also agree that kids need to be equipped to handle verbal (and - sadly - physical) sparring. While I don’t ever want my girls to be bullied either, I want them to have enough sense of self to recognize that someone is mistreating them and tell that person to knock it off (and be prepared to hit that person over the head with a math book if it comes to it). I was a little mouse in elementary school, and I wish I’d have had confidence enough to defend myself.
This is such a tough, tough issue, and I totally sympathize with you wanting someone to blame. *I* want someone to blame on your behalf. I agree with what everyone has said above - your first priority is to stand behind your child and give her the tools (and the help) to deal with these situations. How to address the larger problem? BIG question, one that I’ve been thinking about myself. Gotta give it more thought.
It is so hard to know what to do or how you can help. It’s such an insanely huge and complicated problem. After you get past the mama bear anger, you can’t help but pity the kids who didn’t have the solid loving foundation in their life, where they learned that hitting was wrong. So, you get mad at their parents, until you realize that they didn’t have the solid loving foundation in their life, where they learned how to be good parents.
So, who do you get mad at now? And, what’s the anger going to do to solve the problem, anyway?
I guess the next thing for you to teach TQ is that she needs to trust that her heart knows what’s right and wrong. She should be confident in herself. And, I guess, now she needs to learn how to deal with the reality that not everyone knows right from wrong like she does.
I still have vivid memories of the fantastically scary school I was in for 1-3rd grades. I’m glad for you both that you’re looking for a way to make a change. And I’m so sorry that this is happening to you.
I am delurking to say I really feel your pain on this issue. I am a former kindergarten teacher (now a SAHM), and I have to tell you that after the things I’ve experienced (mind you, I taught in a rough neighborhood), I feel there is no way I can send my children to public school. The whole system is a mess and children are getting more and more violent. And sadly, administration is powerless to do much about it. Suspension? Please. These type of kids couldn’t care less. The upside is that after the first two months of kindergarten, things do settle down a bit. Your daughter’s teacher is right that it takes time to teach kindergarteners how to act in school. Many of them come to school without ever having been taught to respect authority, to follow directions, or to act appropriately with their peers. It sounds like you have a good school with a supportive staff. My advice, stick it out for a few more weeks to see if anything changes. In the meantime, teach your daughter how to choose friends wisely and stay away from children who make the “bad choices.” I have seen too many sweet little girls turn mean when they come into this kind of environment. I really hope that doesn’t happen to your daughter. Teaching her to fight back really won’t help the situation, but she definitely needs to know that she does NOT need to take it. She needs to tell the teacher EVERY time it happens. Your daughter is blessed to have such a great advocate for a mom. It is just so, so sad the way so many children are (not) being raised. And who can you blame? It’s Satan’s world.
What a good post on a difficult topic. As I read I was talking to you - you were angry with the parents who worked, and I started to say “but what if they can’t stay…” and there you were noting that very thing. Such a complex topic, and my heart goes out to your daughter who bears the brunt. I hope she can get the teacher’s help on this. No child should be scared to go to school. Oy.
My observation has been that reporting bullying to school authorities or clergy members (depending on where the bullying occurs) is largely ineffective. My parents, and I plan to continue the tradition, considered it a legal matter. They would express their concerns and let the parents know the litigious action would follow if it happened again. On the one occasion on which I was bullied during Jr. High, they didn’t even bother to let the school know. They simply called the police.
Yet I notice that most parents, even those who feel as strongly about this as you do, don’t take legal recourse. I’m wondering why not? Is it impractical?
My daughter started middle school and has complained about two boys who tease her pretty hard and I just ache for her. In 7th and 8th grade I was stuck next to Jason Polnichek every hour (good ol’ alphabetical seating and I was an N) where I got to hear him tell me non-stop how ugly and stupid I was every day for two years. Luckily I had a Mom and Dad who loved me enough to help me to ignore whatever was happening at school (and they wouldn’t tolerate sibilings being cruel to each other) so that’s what I’m doing, I tell my daughter when she’s had a bad day that at least she’s home among friends and that we love her forever–and maybe top it off with a scoop of ice cream. And that helps. Family solidarity makes all the difference, then the child doesn’t feel as if they’re alone in the world and can at least get home to someone who accepts and loves them and be among friends. Good luck, it’s not exactly the same situation you’re in, but maybe it might help someone else out there.
We dealt with some of this in pre-school, which was a mix of university faculty children, lower income kids, and kids from middle class two-career families. I loved the socio-economic diversity, but struggled with the same things you are facing now. In pre-school, the teachers were better able to spend time working on this with the kids, while in kindergarten the teachers are already under the gun for No Child Left Behind and are probably afraid to take time away from the important academic business that is now such a HUGE part of kindergarten. Also, now that our older son is in first grade, I’m seeing this play out in other ways - not bullying, but just social stuff, how kids play together after school, etc. I will probably post on it soon.
A friend of mine is a school counselor and suggests teaching your child to say loudly to the offender: “Stop bullying (or hitting or kicking, etc) me.” She also says:
Try not to frame it as “go tell on him.” There’s a big difference between saying “tell” on him and telling an adult when another person is hurting you. One is tattling, which school staff hate, the other is teaching her to find resources to help.
She also recommends this link:
http://stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov/adult/indexAdult.asp?Area=familycorner
Oh, man. This is HUGE. I know how you feel, because I went through the same thing with my daughter at preschool. She was hurt, not badly, but hurt on a near daily basis. My husband taught her to defend herself, and I hated that until I realized that it was useful to learn how to defend yourself. Not be offensive, not learn that hitting was okay, but that if you needed to and the other courses of action weren’t working (e.g. tell the kid to stop, tell the teacher, remove yourself from the situation with the other kid) then it was okay to defend yourself against attack. There is a difference, I came to see.
It still feels bad.
This is such a hard topic, because you send your child off to school and expect them to be safe. You want them to love school, but this is a big reason why they don’t want to go.
Now my daughter is in Kindergarten at a private school, which is relatively inexpensive. It’s only been around for 11 years, and is a christian school which teaches in the classical education style. A big part of the school’s emphasis is behavior. Not sheep-like obedience, but proper behavior, and it is also taught WHY this is important. There is no spanking, but a prevailing atmosphere that good behavior is expected. Bad behavior is called out and dealt with immediately. I don’t know how they do it, but they do.
I am very lucky in that this school costs not much at all - $2400 per year - which is inexpensive as far as private schools go and is the reason we can afford to send her. It’s a relief to know that the kids are disciplined, but you know what? We sacrifice diversity in order to send her there. I know that, and I don’t like that. She is in a mostly white school with kids whose parents make decent money in order to pay for it. It is a life experience she is now missing by not being around kids without priveledge, by not experiencing other ethnic cultures.
We might move, and to an area that doesn’t have a school like this. That’s okay, I really think it will be good for her to experience a more diverse group of kids. Poor isn’t bad, dealing with hard things isn’t bad.
I don’t know, I go around and around with this. I just want her to have a good education, to be empathetic, and to not be hurt at school. Why is this such a tall order???
I am so politically incorrect and such a mama lion… I would have the hardest time repressing the urge to POP those little violent kiddos. STAY AWAY FROM MY CUBS!!!
(I realize this is not even REMOTELY helpful, so thanks for nothing OTJ, right?)
A couple of comments about your content before I respond to the actual issue.
You equate poverty with a lack of education. While sometimes that is true, it isn’t ALWAYS true and it seems unfair to assume that all poor people don’t have the education, the time, or the knowhow to parent correctly. My children and I are very poor, but I have a PhD from Harvard (really!). I SAH because I’m disabled, and live on SSDI, but I certainly do know how to fill out a form and attend what meetings I can. However, the school is less than accomodating to the handicapped, and also to the people who cannot take time off from work due to low end service jobs that do not offer such amenities. You assume that working parents are less caring, but you must remember that many low income moms work 2 or more service type jobs and literally have no time to attend school meetings or help with their children’s homework. They are TIRED. They work to pay the rent and to hopefully get some food. They’re not in office jobs, they’re the people who clean your house, who work in the car wash, who bag your groceries. So give them a break and don’t make such judgements about the poor. They’re trying the best they can in terrible circumstances to parent their children and put food on the table. The pressure to be a great parent is tough enough without judging people only on their socioeconomic status.
Also, it seems to me that you’re blaming the children for aggressive behavior when, IMO, it is the school’s fault for not taking appropriate action. That starts with the principal and then goes down to the teachers. Is it that they do not have enough staff? Or that the staff isn’t trained in conflict resolution? Or is it because parents don’t complain? Or don’t volunteer to be in the classroom. There are PLENTY of schools that serve lower socio-economic populations where there isn’t this type of aggression. I’ve worked in them. I know they exist. What you are talking about is a problem with the school in general, and that means that you need to take action from the top.
Talking to the teacher is one thing. But she’s going to slack off once the hitting stops for a week or so, because she’s got more pressing issues like getting the kids to pass the freaking standardized tests. What you should do is talk to the principal, and write a letter, that you mail registered mail, to the superintendent of schools, detailing each aggressive act, and informing them that you WILL take legal action if this behavior continues. Don’t think they’ll ignore you. The threat of legal action scares the shit out of school systems. In the meantime, use you internet skills and look up all the law suits filed against the school. They’re out there. Find out if the school has been sued before for bullying. Then you have precident and you can ensure that they WILL listen to you, becaue they know what a law suit cost them.
Your daughter does not have to endure bullying. This is an evil that starts with bad administrations and will continue unabated if it is not addressed at the top of the school feeding chain. Your job to protect your child means that you have to step up to the plate and fight dirty. The school isn’t going to do anything unless you stand up and let your voice be heard.
Gather the other parents and attend a school committee meeting. Make sure they know you’re serious. Become an activest for your school and your child.
But please, don’t blame it on the poor. Poverty does’t equal bad behavior, and your are just buying into the teacher’s biased statements to blame the kids instead of taking responsibility for control in her classroom. Most teachers wouldn’t tolerate that kind of behavior for one second. That this teacher does, says to me that she’s a sucky teacher, no matter how nice she appears. Her job is to control the behavor of the class, and to ensure a safe place for all kids. She’s not doing that right now.
this kills me.. it reminds me of the type of daycare blake was going too (up until recently). she shouldn’t have to put up with that when she’s just trying to go to school. no kid should deal with that. i would be LIVID. L I V I D. i totally feel you on the both sides of the fence thing and seeing things from all angles.. boy do i ever.
i think your daughter DOES need to learn to defend herself. i’ve taught blake not to start fights, but it’s okay to finish them. lol
You know, I have two “troubled” relatives who are sisters- one was busted making crystal meth and the other was stealing her parents’ check books and got them into all sorts of debt. At a party I walked into a room where these two were and I placed a bowl cheese dip on the table. I started talking with my grandma and then one of the girls said, “Oh, I love the dip.” They continued asking me questions about how I made it. I explained it and then I went back to talking to my grandma.
Then I overhear them say, “Wow, can you believe how nice she is? She is just so sweet.” They went on and on about it for 5 minutes, thinking I couldn’t hear them. All I did is freaking explain how to make a super simple dip. Looking around the room I realized that their immediate family is always yelling at them or calling them names. The big deal to them is that I didn’t add any name-calling or attitude to my explanation. I treated them like humans.
This was so sad to me and while I cannot imagine being in your shoes and dealing with this with my own son, I am sure that many of these kids really are lacking POSITIVE attention. I hope that the situation improves. It seems like you have a great teacher for your daughter.
I agree that this issue transcends all social classes and not just with children that are lacking parental attention. My children attend a private school in an affluent area and I see this problem with children who have too much. Especially the children whose parent’s world revolves around the child. They teach these children that they are entiltled to whatever they want and they think their child does no wrong. My daughter had a bullying issue the first week of school that I shared on my blog. The bully has had issues for several years now and has now chose my daughter as his next victim. I called the father and he gave me one excuse after another of how his son’s problems were caused by others. This father is too stupid to realize that by defending his son he is teaching him that his bad actions have no consequences.
It’s amazing to me that we have become a “no spank” society yet we let our children beat each other up. I’m working with the local police dept. to put a “Zero Tolerance Bully Policy” in place at our school. We read books about bullies at home and often talk about it, especially with my daughters because girls can be vicious with emotional bullying. I’m seeing it more and more as my girls get older.
I’m sorry you are going through this. It’s absolutely gut wrenching.
Now that you have informed the teacher about what is going on, the next step is to put that discussion in writing and send it to the school with a request that they get back to you in 48 hours as to what they plan to do in order to insure the kids are safe while in their care at school. You need to get a paper trail going so they realize the problem is not goint to go away and that you have an expectation for them to protect your child and you must put them on notice that you expect them to address it in a timely manner. I am sorry this is happening, this is an issue that crosses all SEC’s and educational levels. It is abusive behavior, and research indicates physical, emotional and verbal abuse are across every spectrum of our society. Too much screen time is also doing us in. Kids aren’t learning about reading non-verbal communication cues like they once were. : (
Okay, I am fuming for you. I realize the teachers have a lot to deal with, but COME ON. “Kids will be kids” is a crock of shit. “These kids came from a bad school” is a crock of shit. There can be expectations and limits set in the classroom, structured consequences understood by all, guidelines for the kids to follow in terms of how to treat people. Clearly the teachers weren’t discussing ANY of this until parents started complaining that their children were victims of physical aggression. That is absolutely unacceptable. UNACCEPTABLE.
I hate to be extremist when I know you’re already upset enough about the situation, but given the apparent lack of structure and planning to that classroom, I would have concerns about the overall education - not just intellectual education, but social and developmental education. I mean, you and your husband have resorted to doing something you didn’t want to do with your child - teaching her to “hit back” to defend herself. DEFEND HERSELF! She’s six! I’m just so sorry you’re in this situation - I know it’s not going to be easy to come up with a good solution at this point.
A couple of comments about your content before I respond to the actual issue.
You equate poverty with a lack of education.
No, I dont. I do, however, believe that a lack of educational opportunities plagues people that come from poor areas or impoverished backgrounds. And I do realize that while not every poor person is uneducated, it is a very real scenario that should be acknowledged.
While sometimes that is true, it isn’t ALWAYS true and it seems unfair to assume that all poor people don’t have the education, the time, or the knowhow to parent correctly.
I assume nothing. I merely presented the scenarios that the teacher presented to me coupled with my own experiences in talking to children in after-care for the past three years. And the teacher is with these kids every day. I trust that she knows more about their situations than you and I do.
My children and I are very poor, but I have a PhD from Harvard (really!). I SAH because I’m disabled, and live on SSDI, but I certainly do know how to fill out a form and attend what meetings I can.
I don’t make any blanket statements about anyone. I say SOME children and SOME parents. If you are offended because you feel I am speaking about you or someone like you, I apologize and assure you that it’s not personal.
However, the school is less than accomodating to the handicapped, and also to the people who cannot take time off from work due to low end service jobs that do not offer such amenities.
You assume that working parents are less caring, but you must remember that many low income moms work 2 or more service type jobs and literally have no time to attend school meetings or help with their children’s homework.
No, I don’t assume that at all. You should re-read my post with a more open mind. I fact, i said that I assume those parents DO LOVE THEIR CHILDREN.
They are TIRED. They work to pay the rent and to hopefully get some food. They’re not in office jobs, they’re the people who clean your house, who work in the car wash, who bag your groceries. So give them a break and don’t make such judgements about the poor. They’re trying the best they can in terrible circumstances to parent their children and put food on the table. The pressure to be a great parent is tough enough without judging people only on their socioeconomic status.
Oh brother. I don’t need to judge their socioeconomic status. I see it with my own eyes, as does the teacher. To acknowledge something is not the same as judging it.
Also, it seems to me that you’re blaming the children for aggressive behavior when, IMO, it is the school’s fault for not taking appropriate action.
No, I blame the system that they have grown up in. A system that doesn’t have time for them. A system that is barely functioning. Yes, the school needs to take action but that is not going to fix a system that continues to churn out children who are not prepared to be in a structured environment with rules.
That starts with the principal and then goes down to the teachers. Is it that they do not have enough staff? Or that the staff isn’t trained in conflict resolution? Or is it because parents don’t complain? Or don’t volunteer to be in the classroom. There are PLENTY of schools that serve lower socio-economic populations where there isn’t this type of aggression. I’ve worked in them. I know they exist. What you are talking about is a problem with the school in general, and that means that you need to take action from the top.
I believe that if parents were more involved… ALL PARENTS…we wouldn’t have these issues to this degree.
Talking to the teacher is one thing. But she’s going to slack off once the hitting stops for a week or so, because she’s got more pressing issues like getting the kids to pass the freaking standardized tests. What you should do is talk to the principal, and write a letter, that you mail registered mail, to the superintendent of schools, detailing each aggressive act, and informing them that you WILL take legal action if this behavior continues. Don’t think they’ll ignore you. The threat of legal action scares the shit out of school systems. In the meantime, use you internet skills and look up all the law suits filed against the school. They’re out there. Find out if the school has been sued before for bullying. Then you have precident and you can ensure that they WILL listen to you, becaue they know what a law suit cost them.
Your daughter does not have to endure bullying. This is an evil that starts with bad administrations and will continue unabated if it is not addressed at the top of the school feeding chain. Your job to protect your child means that you have to step up to the plate and fight dirty. The school isn’t going to do anything unless you stand up and let your voice be heard.
Gather the other parents and attend a school committee meeting. Make sure they know you’re serious. Become an activest for your school and your child.
But please, don’t blame it on the poor. Poverty does’t equal bad behavior, and your are just buying into the teacher’s biased statements to blame the kids
I will say this one more time, re-read the post, I don’t blame the students and i really don’t blame their parents. I blame a system that DOES NOT WORK.
instead of taking responsibility for control in her classroom. Most teachers wouldn’t tolerate that kind of behavior for one second. That this teacher does, says to me that she’s a sucky teacher, no matter how nice she appears. Her job is to control the behavor of the class,
No, her job is to TEACH. She’s not a security guard or a behavior modification specialist. To heap that upon her is simply wrong. Children should come to school with some basic level of socialization.
and to ensure a safe place for all kids. She’s not doing that right now.
I thank you for your comments. I realize we may not see eye to eye but I also think you projected a lot of things onto my post that just aren\’t there. You may not agree, but we ARE on the same team.
I know you have a lot of comments here, but I just wanted to give you an opinion from a kindergarten teacher… If this bullying/violence continues , I would talk to the principal (or person in charge). I have taught in low-income schools where I have never met the parents & I worked at a school for severely emotionally disturbed children & would NEVER allow this to happen in my class, playground or anywhere else. I have a couple students that were aggressive in the beginning of the year & I followed them around the playground & no there is no (or very little) problems with them. My students know the rules and the consequences. It sounds like the students there do not. I would ask your daughter if she knows the class rules, and also what happens to these kids when she tells the teacher. I would be devastated to find out that this was going onin my class, but I have seen other teachers that have little or no consequences for their students. Anyway, it’s just my opinion & I am sorry that this is happening to your daughter, or anyone else’s child.
Oy. This is a tough one. I hear this stuff and reallllly want to homeschool.
I got the shit kicked out of me in school. I was 8 in 5th grade - and tiny. So, for obvious reasons, I was a target.
There’s something to be said about learning to stand up for yourself as well as all the other lessons that go along with it - however, I wonder why it has to be that our kids have to learn them in kindergarten. I am so jaded to wish and believe that this SHOULD NOT be happening.
And class has nothing to do with it - seriously, I’ve seen some rich fucked up nasty kids. But honestly, I don’t think the teachers have a ton of say or control anymore. They intervene too much and they can get called out - not enough, same thing.
And who’s to say what’s happening on the playground or like someone mentioned, in the cafeteria.
Ugh. I have no answers. Just a headache.
Izzy - no matter what happens, your daughter knows she has you. Which is the most important thing.
I would enroll her in some self-defense classes - tae kwon do or something - just so she will have the confidence, not that she will have to use it.
Hey Izzy, I didn’t have time to read all the comments here but I did read some and I just have to voice my disagreement. If your gut is telling you to take your daughter out of this school, you should do that. I, like you, was bullied in school. I was six in the first grade and I attended an all black elementary school (I was one of 3 whities in the whole school) although I had plenty of friends there, many of the children came from low income families that didn’t pay enough attention to them. I understand this now but when you’re six, who the hell cares WHY you’re being hurt? You’re being hurt and you need to be protected. My mother took me out of the school and sent me to a more integrated school in a different neighborhood. Yes, she had to lie about our address. The school was a much better experience for me. In fact, I have only decent memories but I am still a bit traumatized from my first and second grade experience. Just my three cents.
Ditto the previous commenter that I haven’t taken time to read all the comments. Your daughter is young enough that I think you can continue to press the teacher and administration for consequences for hitting. When they get older it becomes a little more complicated. My son had some issues with neighbors teasing and bothering him at school in junior high. By that age though, and we discussed this with him, if we had talked to the boys’ parents, we believe they would have taken action but that the boys would have just waited it out and then made it worse for our son. We talked a lot with our son about how to deal with it and he learned to stay away from those guys whenever possible. He learned to measure his response to them because that just fed the teasing. It worked out although I hated knowing it was happening. We would have changed his school situation if we had to. No question about it.
This is rambling. I agree there is so much that could be discussed here in terms of why these kids don’t know, what are their parents doing, what is society’s responsibility. It is good to face these issues, but I think in the meantime your daughter will be well served to know that you are standing up for her and that telling on someone who is hitting is not the same as tattling. My daughter doesn’t need to tell me that her friend isn’t letting her be the teacher when they play school but I do want her to tell me if that friend hits her.
Oh crap, so sorry to hear about your little girl. It is an issue that I have dealt with a few times. Good for you to empower her to tell teh teacher. If this continues happening, forget the teacher, demand an audience with the principal.
I really feel for the kids who havee had to fend for themselves more than my girls have. But they are my kids, sooo, I will do what I have to.
I do find the Day Care Kids are much tougher than the not Day Care Kids…
I hate to admit this on one level, but we have taught our girls to hit back twice as hard and the bully will never bother you again. In our case didn’t work, our girls are too gentle.
Good luck with this. It can be so hard.
This is just awful Izzy. I flushed with anger at the idea of your daughter getting kicked in the back.
Once I was in school, I was in daycare every day. Some of the programs were worse than others. Some were terrible. I was subjected to the same kind of rough treatment and how would that have changed if someone taught me how to throw a punch??? It would have change A LOT simply because I would have been more confident, more willing to defend myself, and therefore less of a victim and less of a target, just from a change in attitude.
My sister learned the hard way too… she just kept in the anger and rage, never fighting back, trying not to care, never reporting about it to our mom and dad or teachers. And then one day in the seventh grade she totally snapped and punched a girl in the mouth and knocked out her front teeth. She never went back to being timid. The rage poured out of her regularly. No one had ever advocated for her and helped to change things. It was terrible. I tried to beat up the boys that teased her, but then other boys would beat me up for “thinking I could hit a boy”.
I begged my mom to put us in a different school. Later she told me that she just thought we were kids being kids. The world was tough and we were learning about it. But that wasn’t true. Those kids were awful and we needed protection.
I’m glad you went to her teacher. Those kicks and punches are an enormously overwhelming lesson for a six year old. I am so afraid that one day I won’t be able to protect Annabelle from violence like that. It scares me.
I think teaching your daughter some defensive moves is the smartest idea yet. I will be considering martial arts for Annabelle the second she can do it.
chiming in (because you need my comment so bad) anyway, had a couple of instances like this a couple of years ago, and long story short, chewed the principles head off. it’s wrong when children have to suffer (in noah’s case, physical abuse like TQ but at the hand of a medically documented “behaviorly challenged” kid) in the name of equal opportunity. in my day, the mean kids rode to school on the short bus and were in a different hall from the rest of us. that may seem mean to some, but it worked. good luck with all that junk there iz. i’m behind you. life isn’t fair, but that doesn’t mean you’re not your kids biggest advocate when the time is right. the time is right!
Thanks for always talking about real life in your blog. I think you are the shit.
You’ve made some very good points. I’d be furious, too. Once again, the kids from good homes have to suffer while schools take their own sweet time addressing emotional/intellectual/social issues of the kids who come from homes where no one has the time or the inclination or the skills to care. I hate that TQ has to go through this. Next stop? The Principal,
I’m sorry you have to deal with this situation. It seems like in the short-term, it’s not all that bad that your husband is teaching her to hit, although perhaps what he is really teaching her to do is defend herself -which I see nothing wrong with when couched in those terms. I’m sure she knows not to hit others maliciously because you’ve taught her that is wrong. But when someone is beating up on her, she must defend herself from that somehow. It’s just a matter of finding that fine line between getting into a fist fight and actually just defending yourself from blows. (Gah, can’t believe we’re actually talking about KINDERGARTEN here.)
Long-term, if things don’t improve perhaps it would be better to find a new school for her. I know it’s easier said than done, but if you feel that her learning or her safety or her emotional development is being compromised, then maybe it’s time to go elsewhere. Hopefully, it won’t come to that. And again, I know that’s much easier said than done.
Wow, you really touched some nerves with this post.
The stuff your describing is the reason I never put my kids in daycare. I’m lucky with our school, which is a Montessori program funded by the public school system. We have 150 students, and the size really helps.
You really need to find the right school for you and TQ. She has to be there until the 6th grade. Out where I live we have a lot of really good charter schools, which tend to be smaller and require a lot of parent involvement. Maybe you have the same in you area.
Good luck. You have a tough road ahead of you.
Izzy,
I am so sorry your daughter is going through that at school. Aidan went through that in senior kindergarten too. He’s changed schools for grade one and it is better now. BUt it was awful. Horrible. We had so many meetings with the teachers, but it didn’t ever really help. The problem would wane and surge.
It is such a hard thing. For everyone.
I just have to chime in here again. As a teacher, I used to get so ticked off when people always blamed the school. Bad behavior has its roots in the home and parents are responsible for that. It wasn’t my job as a 9th grade English teacher to teach proper behavior. They should have already known how to behave, as should Kindergarten students. I’m glad you stuck up for yourself on that comment Izzy. You didn’t say anything that should have elicited such an attack. As for your husband teaching TQ how to punch-good for him. He should also teach her some basic blocks and non aggressive moves to show the kids she’s not to be messed with. If you want some specific suggestions without a karate class, just let me know. And the other commenters are right. The very best thing she can do is say loudly, “DON’T HIT ME. THAT’S NOT NICE. DON’T DO IT AGAIN.” That alone may solve the problem. That’s what worked for us on the bus.
Wow. I am sure whatever I ahve to say ahs already been said since I haven’t read through the comments. But I think you have to do what is best for your child. Iam sorry but I don’t think having her say, “Don’t hit me it isn’t nice.” is really going to work. At this age a teacher should be stepping in to dole out some consequences.
I was that little girl who got picked on too. being bullied destroys a child’s soul.
Hi,
Your story made me so sad. I’m so glad your child has parents who advocate for her, that will make the biggest difference, along with teaching her about having boundaries and that sometimes you have to really teach others to respect your boundaries.
I also wanted to say that income has little bearing on how children are taught to respect others and the ability to engage in the educational process of your child. I am a single mom of 3 children. I make less than $20,000 per year (including child support) and this was a choice. I have 2 master’s degrees and am working on my Ph.D. I chose this path because I CAN raise children without money, they need my time and attention. Money cannot replace my attention to their lives. So, what do I care about? my children. Maybe when they are done with high school, I can get a kick ass job, but right now, they are my job and I’ll work on my education as a second priority.
This must just be makinng you so sad and so angry.
You know what you are saying about how people look down on the poor? I really think this is the dark side of the whole myth of the American Dream. If it’s possible for *anyone* to make it through hard work, then obviously those who don’t make it are just lazy asses, right? I makes it possible, even acceptable to look down on them, blame them for their own misfortune, and step over them on your way. That angers me, too, but it fails to take so many things into account.
Your story is heartbreaking and I can feel your frustration and anger! I agree with Black Belt Mama, that the roots of such aggression and behavior are found at the home. Unfortunately, you cannot *fix* other people’s households. Yet, I also think that the teacher at this level of education is a huge part of the socialization of children. Parents are not always in a position to monitor their children in group activities. I think teachers have a burden in some respect to assist children at this young age as they are still learning how to socialize. Your daughter’s teacher shouldn’t be allowing such violent behavior in her classroom. I have the same fears you have since we live in a city with rough schools and face the same issues (our elementry schools have metal detectors!). I hate to say I have given up on the system, but in all honesty, I will be doing my best to NOT put my child in a public system. It may seem close minded or like running away from the broader situation, but my child comes first. If your gut feelings say to make a change, that just might be the thing to do. Best of luck to you and hope things do improve simply as a result of you taking action. You’re daughter is definately lucky!
I’m sorry not to read all the previous comments, but this put that ball of stress in my stomach about the schooling my kids are getting right up in my throat.
I *really* don’t think this has as much to do with underprivileged or ’special assignment’ kids as it does to do with specific kids, specific parents and specific teachers and administrators.
I say this because when my daughter was in kindergarten she never talked about physical aggression in the classroom, but my son talks about it all the time and it’s always one of 3 kids in his class. We’re at the same school, just 3 years later. The population of the school hasn’t changed that much in that time.
We do have a very specific policy and contract all the kids have to sign and when I had my son scratch his M-A-X onto the page I thought it a bit silly, I mean kindergartners having to be warned about physical aggression and bullying? Please.
And then I worked in my son’s classroom and met the horrifying brat who was on his soccer team and was already familiar with her physical aggression and parents who ignore, ignore, ignore her horrible behavior.
This little girl has been sent home for her physically aggressive behavior. I see her with the principal near daily. She was so obnoxious in the classroom I mostly stared at her open mouthed…
Her parents are quite ‘affluent’ actually but with that affluence comes a certain amount of disengaging from the reality of who their child is. Not for all affluent parents but for some this is true. Just like some underprivileged parents are disengaged for different reasons (or perhaps similar: both are working hard to maintain their lifestyles? Even though their ‘needs’ are very different.)
I don’t even know what I’m trying to say. Part of my anxiety and unhappiness with my home and neighborhood stems from the school I’m sending my children to. I know these issues happen everywhere, my friend sends her kids to a school in an affluent neighborhood with HYPER involved parents and still there are specific kids with issues.
I simply want to send my kids where a *majority* of the parents are on the same page I am about our kid’s educations.
Where I am now, I’m not sure that’s true and it makes me very uncomfortable about the education my kids are getting.
I was in a school situation a lot like the one Stefanie describes once– I was one of three white students in my class at an otherwise all-black elementary school, and on TOP of that I was a geek, so I got daily death threats. I had bricks thrown at my head in the playground. I had my glasses broken 6 or 7 times (and we were so poor at the time that it took weeks for me to get new glasses, so I basically spend half the school year blind). I think I got hit by someone at least once a day.
(As an adult I actually think it was useful for me, as a white-appearing person– I am actually mixed race, but I look white– to experience what it’s like to be a minority hated on the basis of my skin color. But I am not sure the beatings were entirely necessary for me to get the general idea).
Anyway no one at the school would do anything about it despite my mother’s complaints, because the teachers and administrators there loathed their jobs and couldn’t be bothered to care. But one thing that worked for me, that I discovered on my own at the time, was to look the very meanest, most violent girl right in the eye and say, loud enough that the whole class could hear, “Go ahead. Hit me. Hit me again. Beat me up if you want to. I am not going to hit you back, because it’s wrong.” And I would just stand there, staring at her, daring her to beat the crap out of someone who wouldn’t fight back, challenging the whole world to witness how cowardly such an act would be. She would always back down when I did that. But of course there were still times when she caught me off guard and got in a quick hit before I could say something about it.
I don’t know if this tactic would work in kindergarten, though. Those kids might be too young to understand or care about the idea of losing face in front of their peers.
Izzy I am so sorry your daughter is going through that. While our school is not a special assignment school we have a very diverse school population due to bussing kids in (which I have no problem with) However when my daughter was at lunch and told that she was going to get her ass kicked at recess (in kindergarten mind you) I literally flipped out. Thankfully our school as a zero tolerance policy which it sounds like your school needs to adopt. Irregardless of the parents these children might have they still need to be taught socially and letting it slide is doing a severe injustice to EVERYONE. I personally wouldn’t let it go and I’d take it to the principal, the superintendent, board of education etc. Good luck to you and your little girl!
Holy crow, Izzy! (First: thanks for clarifying your post to margalit, who got my blood boiling a bit.)
You are right on, and I’m sorry your daughter has to deal with all this in kindergarten. It’s a systemic issue, as you’ve pointed out, and one with no easy answers.
That said, the situation provides you the opportunity to equip your daughter with self-defense tactics that will last a lifetime (and I don’t just mean “eye for an eye”). Your commenters have offered excellent advice. Roleplay with your daughter and give her options for how to handle certain situations, and be a presence at the school. Also, and this goes without saying, continue to be the great role model that you are. (You don’t take any clap, and neither will she.)
I’m so sorry to hear about this! It’s disheartening for any mothers to hear that any children being picked on or punched. My 6 y/o son did punch someone in the mouth 2 wks ago. I packed him rice and Nori (the seaweed for sushi, I wrote about it on my blog as well) and this boy called him “chinese boy” and said his lunch looked like poop.
We do not condone any hitting of any kind, and my son regretted doing that. But I was very surprised that he stood up for himself, since he’s very sensitive and mild mannered kid. And I’m pretty sure that this kid won’t pick on his lunch again.
I hope the situation will be better at TQ’s school. It’s very sad to see parents who don’t give a damn about their kids’ welfare and the kids will in turn be like their parents to their own children. It’s a vicious cycle that needs to be stopped.
I’m one of those people who cannot afford to stay home. I have two special needs kids. One of whom will need heart surgery and mine is the job with the benefits. I, indeed, must take time off work to go to parent conferences. I don’t get paid for that time. But I do it. We’ve instituted that homework must get done at daycare, otherwise, he won’t get to do anything fun at home, and his bedtime is 8:30pm. Even though I don’t get home until after 7pm. His backpack is emptied every night - by me not him - and I take care of all non-homeowork issues right then. I can’t partake of the PTA functions. They all happen during the workday. Most of the moms stay at home. The few birthday parties this year, so far, have happened during the week right after school My son couldn’t go. I can’t take time off for a birthday party - have to save my time off for things like pink eye, colds, and flus. This isn’t to complain. My point is - if I can do it, every single working parent out there can. Our family isn’t perfect, and pretty much has no money, but he’s clean, clothed, fed, and educated - and both his parents know exactly what’s going on at school. And to make up for the fact that I can never help out in the classroom? Nights and weekends are spent editing the school wide weekly newsletter. My point is that I cannot understand why parents can be so apathetic. SO MUCH! It doesn’t make sense to me. It sucks I have to work. But our youngest (also in daycare) needs the insurance. So I do it. Period. And I take care of the needs of my oldest and his schooling. Period. How can parents NOT? How in the world do they think that they will get an education? Or worse - how in the world will they learn how to parent their own children? So very very sad.
Here by way of Jana’s perfect post nomination.
I am a mom forced to work long hours to be able to make ends meet, and they barely meet. I drop my son off at his daycare (the home of a grandmotherly woman and her grown daughter, and I’m very pleased with the care he’s given) at 7 am and pick him up by 5:45 every day. I feel terribly guilty over my long hours, but we need my paycheck. Jobs nearer my home don’t pay what I require, so this is the choice I’m left with.
However, no matter how little time I get each day for my son, I spend every second I can with him. He’s 2 and he can count to 20, knows most of the alphabet, and we’re working on colors. I read to him every night, and he’s pretty good at identifying pictures of what we’re reading, particularly if it has to do with Scooby Doo. He’s pretty smart and surprises me daily with things he’s learned. A giant part of me can’t wait until he starts school just so I can help him with his homework and watch him learn. But after reading this post, I’m a bit scared. No parent wants their kid to have to face what TQ is facing every day. But I myself hope against all hope that my son doesn’t become one of the bullies because we’re forced to put him in daycare so many hours of the day. I’m teaching him hitting is not acceptable in any situation. I’ve thought about telling him he can defend himself, but I figure that’ll come later, when he’s older and can understand better. So for now, no hitting, ever. I hope that’s enough.
I intend to be a very hands on parent. Luckily, my husband was offered a new job yesterday that may pay more and could potentially offer him more free time, not requiring the 60 hour weeks his current job requires. It’s a bit of a risk, but hopefully, if things work out the way we hope, our son’s daycare will become a part time proposition and we can be far more available to him then than we are able now. But the concerns for the underprivileged of which you speak are things I worry for every day. We’re not exactly underprivileged. We have decent jobs and live in a decent house. But we’re stretched very thin, and I can only hope this doesn’t contribute in any way to my son being one of the daycare refugees of which you speak.
Hey Izzy. Just came by to read your perfect post, but your site is totally messed up in Safari (I’m on a Mac). Just thought I’d give you a head’s up. I’ll have to check out the post from work tomorrow — bummed.
Wow, Izzy. I’m heartsick over this post. I realize that it’s part of current social milieu, but I can’t help it — it makes me sick. I’m sorry for you, your daughter, the other kids, the teacher(s), and our society as a whole.
ugh.
In talking with my daughter about schools in her area kids who were moved to another school on ’special assignment’ were kids who had been causing so much trouble where they were that the system decided they would have to move them. If that is the case in your area it would seem sensible for the school administration to be tracking these kids and at least attempting to find some resources to work with them on their behavior problems. While normal problems can be handled in a classroom, kids with serious problems need help above and beyond the classroom.
the best decision for me was to keep my kids at home and homeschool them. our two boys are in their teens now and they have as much fun as most kids their age - and with less the trouble their peers are facing in conventional schools.
I am so sorry to hear your daughter is going through something like this. BJ has also been having problems in kindergarten and the reason why I haven’t posted in so long. It got so bad we had to take him out of public school and into private school at his daycare. I will share more later. Hope things work out with your little one.